New Episodes & Show Notes

Here’s your chance to listen to a firsthand account of one of the most horrible parts of our recent human history, and how we stop it from happening again. This episode features a conversation with a psychologist whose life's work sits at the intersection of two of humanity's most extreme capacities: the capacity for cruelty, and the capacity for courage. 

A survivor of the Holocaust in Hungary, hiding in Budapest as a six-year-old, he became a leading researcher on the psychology of genocide, group violence, and altruism - work that has shaped police training programs on "active bystandership," informed reconciliation efforts in Rwanda, and produced decades of research on what leads ordinary people to help others, even at personal risk.

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Do you know someone who's been incarcerated? Have you ever actually asked them their story, instead of judging them on that one fact?

Because 95% of incarcerated people eventually leave prison and come home. They are our neighbors, our coworkers, our family members. 

Here’s why this is relevant to you today: This administration has made "tough on crime" the centerpiece of its second term - among other things, reviving the federal death penalty, pushing back against cashless bail reform, and pressuring prosecutors nationwide to seek harsher sentences (when, of course, it benefits them and/or the MAGA agenda). The message from Washington is loud and clear: punishment first, everything else second.

But here's a question nobody in Washington seems to be asking: what happens after?

How we treat people when they come home - whether we see them as people, or permanently as their worst mistake - says as much about us as any policy coming out of Washington.

So today we're going straight to a conversation that is one of our favorites, with someone who's lived both sides of this story: Marcus Bullock, CEO of Flikshop, who was incarcerated as a teenager and built a company helping formerly incarcerated people stay connected to their families and rebuild their lives. This is a conversation about what "law and order" actually looks like on the ground and in people - not just in the abstract.

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On June 30th, 2026, the Supreme Court ruled that states can bar transgender girls and women from competing on girls' and women's teams. Six to three. It's now the law in over half the country.

And however you feel about that ruling, here's what we noticed in the days after it came down: almost none of the coverage actually talked to a transgender kid, or the parent raising one. 

It was all policy. All abstraction. It is a decision that, on paper, is about Title IX and biological sex and constitutional interpretation. 

But underneath all that legal language is something much more personal: real kids, real families, real teams, and real decisions about who gets to belong. And let’s not forget: argued by people who've never sat across from an eight-year-old who already knows she's going to be treated differently.

So we went back into our archive. A while back, we sat down with a remarkable mom, Jaime, raising a transgender daughter in Florida. And more recently, we talked with Schuyler - you might know him as Pink Manta Ray - a multiethnic Korean American trans educator, the first transgender Division 1 athlete on a men’s team while at Harvard, and author of He, She, They: 

How We Talk About Gender and Why It Matters.

We're combining pieces of both conversations into one episode, because we think you need both things right now: Jaime's story, to feel it - and Schuyler's clarity, to know what to actually say and not say when it comes up in your own life. 

These aren’t talking points. These are ways to simply see the humanity in each other. Please listen, and share widely.

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Crystal Echo Hawk's daughter gets asked if she still lives in a teepee. And Crystal's response isn't rage - it's something more unsettling. 

She gets it. 

Because 87% of American schools stop teaching about Native peoples after 1900, and 78% of Americans know very little about Native people. So that question, as painful as it is, makes a terrible kind of sense. The last data point most Americans have on Native people is somewhere around third grade. And then nothing.

Crystal Echo Hawk is a citizen of the Pawnee Nation of Oklahoma, the former executive director of IllumiNative, a national, native-led, non-profit organization born out of the “Reclaiming Native Truth Project“, a research project from 2016-2018, and was the largest public opinion research project ever conducted about native people.

She is one of the most important voices in the country on what it actually means to be Native American in America today - not in a history book, not in a Halloween costume aisle, not doing the horrifying tomahawk chop in a stadium.

This is a conversation you won’t want to miss.

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Imagine you're six years old. You look out past a barbed wire fence at a highway in the desert, and every single car that passes by is driven by someone white. The teachers who come to your school? White. The guards in the towers above you, also white. And you think to yourself: is this America? Or is America out there? 

That child was John Tateishi. He was almost three years old when the U.S. government forced his entire family - along with 120,000 other Japanese Americans - from their homes and into concentration camps on American soil. His family ended up at Manzanar. And when the war ended, they were handed $25 and told to find their way home.

What John did with that childhood - with that rage, that clarity, that love of country despite everything this country did to him - is an important story in American history, and honestly one that many adults may not have even learned in their history classes growing up. 

He went on to lead the Japanese American redress campaign, helping secure a formal government apology and reparations. He's the author of Redress: The Inside Story of the Successful Campaign for Japanese American Reparations. He shares a lot about what that fight means today - for the Black reparations movement, for anti-Asian hate, and for the question that sits at the center of all of it: Who gets to be American? 

As we move towards a celebration of America’s birthday, that question sits front and center for many of us, as we’re actively being told that we’re not American. These stories show us not only how we reject that narrow view, but also how to fight for ourselves and one another while loving our communities, families, and country at the same time.

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Six people. That's all it took. Six young men sitting in a law office in Pulaski, Tennessee, in December of 1865 - just eight months after the Civil War ended - decided to start a secret club. One that, 150 years later, still impacts our country today. 

To combat the recent erasure of history and ensure these stories remain not only alive but top of mind, this summer we are re-releasing some of our most important historical episodes from the last seven years. 

We hope you listen, share, like, and all those things, but most importantly, learn from them, and translate that into action, even if it’s just telling one other person about this. 

Change doesn’t have to be big. 

But these episodes show us how we got to where we are currently - and now, it’s time to do something about it.

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What does it mean to be American? What does it mean to be Asian American — and why, in 2026, are so many of us still leading with worry?

Today, in honor of AANHPI Heritage Month, we're diving into the TAAF STAATUS Index 2026 by unpacking some stats that are eye-opening, some that are infuriating, and some that are deeply familiar. We'll talk about how Asian Americans are seen - and how we see ourselves - from the food on our plates to the question of whether you even have to be born here to belong here.

It's AANHPI Heritage Month, and we have some thoughts (unsurprising to all of our regular listeners, we’re sure!). If this episode resonates with you, please share widely - and let us know what action step you decided to take after listening.

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What if the thing holding back justice isn't lack of will — it's lack of access? 

Today's guest is doing something about that after coming up from a really rough time in high school, a near-fatal car crash, a parent who believed in him endlessly, and ending up not only at Stanford Law but also with one of the most powerful mentors in the field of law.

For those of you who - like Sara - have liked to tease lawyers for being miserable people with secret languages, this episode brings the absolute best in the field to rehabilitate that image, infuse us with hope and humanity, and remind us that, even if we’re not lawyers, there is a LOT we can each do to make the world a better place.

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The choice before us in 2026 is similar to the choice before Americans in the latter half of the 19th century, and the way we’re framing it today is this: 

Which straight White male President’s line of thinking do you want to get behind?
Choice #1 is Abraham Lincoln, who not only signed the Emancipation Proclamation, but was a firm believer in human rights for all, or Choice #2, the President who followed him, Andrew Johnson, who was perhaps the biggest Confederate sympathizer that we’ve had as President (minus, perhaps, our current one)?

In other words, the choice is between believing in equal rights for all of us, or believing in rights only for rich, landowning, straight White men. Ultimately, this was the question before us in America 150+ years ago. It’s the same question we’re facing today. 

To unpack this, we’re having a conversation with a political leader, lawyer, and author who thinks deeply, systematically, and convincingly to capture your attention with boldness and walk you through some great ways to take action. We hope you listen, share widely, and be bold in how you envision 2026.

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7 Years, One Big Rebrand, and Everything We Know Now: An Honest Anniversary ConversationHave we ever thought about quitting the podcast? What did we think when we were starting Dear White Women seven years ago? Why did we rebrand the show to What Do You Mean By That? What do we want the next chapter of this show to feel like?Those are all questions that we’re asking each other as we celebrate SEVEN YEARS of this podcast, and many more as well. Listen in to find out what we really think about the work that we’re doing, where we see the podcast going, and things that we thought about (or didn’t) when we first started this seven years ago. We’d love to hear more about what you might want to hear as well - please email us at hello@whatdoyoumeanbythat.com with any show ideas!

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Sara. Misasha. Megumi. All three of us are the daughter of one Japanese parent and one White parent each. All three of us had dual citizenship with the United States and Japan at one point. But the trajectories of our citizenship are distinctly different, and only one of us holds a Japanese passport now. Are we all still Japanese?

Today, we speak with Megumi Nishikura, a documentary filmmaker who focuses on stories not often told in our history books, despite their themes impacting so many of us, Japanese or not.

We explore belonging, identity, citizenship, and what history teaches us about where we are now - and the stories we want to carry forward with us.

If you’ve ever wondered if you’ve belonged, or if you’ve ever been told you’re not ____ enough, we hope you listen, and join our conversation.

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What if the very programs designed to make workplaces fairer are actually making the problem worse?

In this episode, we begin with the famous “Cobra Effect”—a colonial-era policy that unintentionally increased the problem it was meant to solve—and explore how the same dynamic shows up in modern diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts.

Our guest, Lily Zhang, argues that many corporate DEI initiatives fail not because the goals are wrong, but because the strategies are. Drawing on decades of research, Lily breaks down why performative programs, surface-level solutions, and “band-aid” workplace initiatives rarely create real change—and what leaders, employees, and communities can do instead to build truly fair organizations for human beings who deserve better.

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Today’s conversation is one about history — but also about now. About 1968 and about 2026. About who gets control over their own body — and who never truly has. About the quiet, complicated ways parents try to protect their children, and the unintended harm that can hide inside “what’s best.” About the tension between safety and freedom. Between acceptance and autonomy. Between love and control.

We’re so excited to talk with a podcast favorite, Kate Schatz, about her new book Where The Girls Were, in today’s episode, and we REALLY dive into everything we mentioned above, and more. If this resonates, please share - we think this is a book and conversation that everyone should be having and reading right now.

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Here we are, February, which is also Black History Month (and for the record: Black history is American history. We’ll say this all day, every day, until everyone gets on this train.). It’s not lost on us that this is the shortest month of the year. It’s also not lost on us that, currently, our administration is actively erasing or whitewashing our nation’s history in real time, including this month itself, and we are being gaslit in the process.

So, this Black History Month, we encourage everyone out there to take a moment to learn our real history, expand the narrative of Black excellence in our country, and actively question the racist tropes and more subtle - yet still overt and noticeable - rewriting of history that is taking place. Many things can be true at once, including fear and the need to not stay silent. Listen in to hear more about what we think about that and simple ways to get these conversations started.

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IHorns honking, people chanting ICE OUT as they crowd busy intersections.

Horns honking, ICE agents smashing car windows, and grabbing people from their cars.

Which scenario sounds like the America you know? 

Which one, more importantly, sounds like the America you want to be fighting for?

Regardless of what you answered, this episode is a must-listen. We unpack the history of ICE (it’s not a long one, despite what might be suggested by our current administration), why ICE acting as the secret police for the administration is not only incredibly illegal today but also reminds us of another secret police which rhymes with Schmestapo, and what we can all DO about ICE in our communities, especially when it seems like we have no agency.

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If you’re a repeat listener to the podcast over the last almost SEVEN years, you know that sometimes, we’ve done seasonal arcs in which we focus on a topic or theme for the season. (And if you’ve just found us - hello!) 

This year, we’re doing something different: a year-long focus on action, which is the third pillar of our listen, learn, and act framework. It moves us from “what can I do?” to “here’s how I show up.” 

We’ll take the things that you’ve been curious about (but didn’t want to ask about, maybe), break down the history behind them, and walk you through why these things matter. 

And then we’ll throw in tips on how, now that you know about them, you can make small changes in your own lives to make a huge impact in your communities and in the fight for all of us. 

We’re in it to win it this year. Hope you’ll come along for the journey.

Welcome to 2026, and a whole new year of What Do You Mean By That? - the podcast about asking better questions, having deeper conversations, and taking action that helps all of us. Make sure you’re signed up for our newsletter to catch all the details in between.

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We’ve had rough years before—but 2025? This one hit different. 

If you’ve been listening to us for the last six years, you know we’re no strangers to hard conversations. DEI. Wellbeing. Systems that don’t work the way they should.

And this year pushed all of that—from the global to the deeply personal.

So what did we learn when everything felt heavier than usual?

Let’s talk about the biggest lessons this year forced us to learn - what we’re leaving behind in 2025, and what we are carrying forward, with purpose, into 2026.

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In today’s episode, we sit down with feminist author and activist Soraya Chemaly for a conversation that feels both urgent and deeply grounding. Soraya’s new book, All We Want Is Everything, traces how male supremacy shows up everywhere—our politics, our homes, our faith spaces, our workplaces, and especially in the lives of our children.

Together, we talk about the rising backlash against women and queer people, the ways boys are being pulled into misogynistic online spaces, and why so many young men are drifting toward anti-democratic movements without even realizing they’re being manipulated. Soraya offers a powerful reframe for what we’re seeing culturally, along with real, everyday actions that families can take to disrupt old gender scripts—on sports fields, around dinner tables, and in the tiny moments we rarely name but constantly repeat.

This conversation is challenging, hopeful, beautifully honest, and filled with the clarity that can actually shift how we move through the world.

Let’s dive in.

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In an age where AI can fake a video, social platforms reward outrage, and even the word ‘misinformation’ means different things to different people, one question rises above the noise: how do we know what to trust? 

Today, we’re joined by Vanessa Otero, the lawyer-turned-media-analyst behind Ad Fontes Media and its well-known Media Bias Chart, to explore exactly that. Vanessa takes us inside the mechanics of bias, the structures driving extreme content, and the habits that actually make us smarter news consumers. This episode is your practical guide to staying informed without getting manipulated.

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Are you a little worried about holiday conversations with your relatives and family members in this increasingly polarized political climate? You’re not alone.

Welcome to something new – a live discussion with our guest, Dr. Bill Doherty, co-founder of Braver Angels and a deeply experienced relationship therapist, coaching one of us (Sara) through how to have difficult conversations, not in theory, but with an actual extended family member who has differing political viewpoints from me.

Nowadays, politics is personal. So, as much as it's tempting to bury our heads in the sand, these conversations are skills of democratic living - we can’t abandon them at a family level and expect our political leaders to do it for us. 

You won’t want to miss the discomfort, the realizations, the tips and perspectives that can help us ALL have better, more meaningful connections and conversations with the people we love in our lives – even and especially if we don’t always agree with them.

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